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Megan Walker: Hello and welcome to Healthcare Online. Megan Walker here with Emily Decloux, who's the CEO from the Ultimate Creative. Hi Emily how are you today?

Emily Decloux: Hi, I am doing well. How are you?

Megan Walker: Very well, thank you. Now, full disclosure, Emily. Is the brilliant genius behind the production of the Healthcare Online podcast.

I've been working with Emily this year to help me get my ideas out into the universe, and so I wanted to bring her along today to talk about the world of podcasting, how to get started, the do's and don'ts. Particularly with a focus for healthcare course creators. So, Emily, kick us off what makes a great podcast?

We, we've seen so many podcasts out there. Some are long, some are short, some have interviews. What makes a great podcast?

Emily Decloux: Oh my goodness. Well, like you said, like there's so many different factors, but I'm going to say the top most important thing for any podcaster is consistency. Mm-Hmm. So, releasing on a regular schedule, not taking breaks.

At least not without letting your listeners know that you're going to take a break. And if you do take a break, I always recommend just re-releasing old episodes so that your feed is always going. This sounds a little bit like that's too easy to do, but it really is the key marker, I think, to any of my clients who have a very successful podcast with a lot of listeners and growth and development.

And I think the next thing would be sharing your own opinion on subjects even when you have a guest on. So make it more conversational. I think a lot of times we get into podcasts, like we listen to podcasts where we're hoping to learn something new and interesting. And the host is kind of saying the same thing that we've heard on another podcast or read in another blog or a book.

What I really want to hear from podcasters is, well, what do you feel about it? What's your take on it? Maybe what's some new insight that you've understood applying this theory to working with your clients or maybe some research that you've done. I really want to understand how does it impact you and your listeners specifically, not just as a general broad sort of idea.

So I think those are the main things. So consistency and sharing your own viewpoint are like the main key markers of a great podcast. 

Megan Walker: Fantastic. Okay. So a million questions are coming to mind. . Before I get into the sidebar that I'm going to go down, just tell me about duration and length.

Because I know that many listeners will be like, well is a 10 minute better than a 60? Some podcasts go crazy long. Like, what's your thoughts on duration?

Emily Decloux: Well, first question is, is it entertaining or is it really boring? That's really what you have to come down to because you can be really engaged and really interested in a podcast if it's again, not just sharing the same old things that you've heard over and over again, or if it's really dull pacing or anything like that.

If you've got an exciting, engaging podcast, you can make it as long or as short as you want, and people will listen the whole way through. It doesn't matter, you know, for example some people's audiences, they don't have a lot of time quote in their day to listen to different podcasts. But I've got 10 minutes per day to listen while I'm walking somewhere.

And if I'm really interested in what the podcast topic is, or who the guest is, or what the podcast host is all about, then I'm gonna come back to it every single day and listen till the end of the 60 minutes. And that takes me through a week of 10 minute walks, for example.

Or if you want to go the different route and just do a 10 minute episode you could do that and maybe even release like a couple more per week so that you're still engaging your audience on a more consistent basis. But it really just does come down to are you creating content that is getting people thinking, getting people asking questions, getting people energized about the topics that you are discussing.

Megan Walker: Yeah, I love it. Yeah. So my question without notice is that when you are giving away all of that really opinion driven or you're putting a stake in the ground and saying here's my thoughts on a topic ... what are your thoughts on giving away course content? Are you a fan of the camp that says talk about the importance of what it's about and why it's important or do you recommend that people get into some of the how?

Emily Decloux: I think getting into some of the how is definitely a key thing. So like I have a course myself about podcasting obviously, and I've also got a podcast that I was doing throughout the pandemic and it goes into a lot of detail about what I do talk about in the course.

Not absolutely everything because it's not like a hands on tutorial video that I'm sharing with you, for example, but it does go into the detail. But here's the thing. I can give you all of that random information without like a clear path to like the learning modules, I guess is how I would describe it.

So all of the information that I would be sharing, I mean, it is already out there, but like with my course specifically, I'm giving you a clear path. I'm starting you with goals. I'm helping you get to your end point. In a clear way, right step by step. it is really important to share some of the how in your podcast, because I think that's a really great opportunity to use SEO search engine, search engine optimisation to bring people into your blog, which would then have an embedded player.

Same like how you have on your podcast, on your website. So that people will start to listen to the podcast and then that, that's actually been one of the really like key ways that I recommend people get their podcast out into the world is using SEO. But you can't really bring people in if you don't share that really good high quality information that Google is looking for.

Right. So that's where I stand on it. Mm-Hmm.

Megan Walker: Good to know. Good to know. Yeah. Should we be assuming that our audience has a split focus when they're listening to our podcast. Is it are, are people listening to podcasts while they're at the gym, walking, ironing? What's your thoughts on the split focus?

Emily Decloux: I mean, I can only really go with what I know, which is my husband and I both have ADHD and we're doing lots of different things while we're listening.

I will say when I'm editing podcasts, I am pretty specifically focused like, yeah, I'm only listening to that podcast because I'm doing the actual editing. But when I'm listening to podcasts just for fun, for leisure, then I'm out for a walk or I'm driving or going to the gym. Like all of those different things.

And I think it's pretty safe to assume that most people want to have some sort of input when they're not actively like trying to think, like, trying to think strategically at work. 

Megan Walker: Picking up on your ADHD comment. I heard a great analogy of the day of like lots of browsers open.

Oh yes. Someone said, my brain is like a computer with lots of browsers open. But the thing I've noticed is all the stuff gets done. It's just, oh yeah. A different approach.

Emily Decloux: Eventually, it just takes different amount of time.

Megan Walker: Now, solo interviews, combination of both. What's best?

Emily Decloux: I like a combination of both because I like interviews.

In order to showcase like case studies or different ways that you could apply your work to a new person who's coming in, it gives people a really good understanding of what it's like to work with you. And then I like solo because then you get to share a little bit more of your expertise. Mm-Hmm. You get to really establish yourself as a thought leader.

And again, that. That ever important point of view people are always looking for. What's your point of view? If I'm going to you as the expert, I wanna know what your thoughts are on a topic. Mm-Hmm. So yeah, I would say definitely have a combination of both.

Megan Walker: I love that. I love the point of view. That's really key.

Yeah. And what's the process involved? You know, a few years ago I had a bash at a podcast and it was like, Ooh, amateur hour recorded on Zoom. You know, give it a chop yourself. Have a go. Stick it up online. Ah, I can feel you cringing. What's the best practice process that we should be following?

Emily Decloux: Well, first of all, I'll say, you know, podcasting started inherently as like a free thing.

Anyone can do it and anyone can still do it. So if that's the route that you're going to take, that is 100% okay. And it's just a little bit of a learning curve, but. The process that applies regardless if you're going with an editor or pro production team or just doing it yourself, I would say is to start with like a vision and a mission.

Who do you want to reach and why? And what is the impact going to be on that audience? Because that's really going to be the driving force behind why you come back every single week or every couple of weeks on a consistent basis to reach that specific audience. And then I would say like, I'm going to get into some nitty gritty details here.

So I would say brainstorm 52 topics that you can just have like a year's worth of episodes that you can draw from. Like you're going to undoubtedly come up with more topics as you go through, but like you'll never run out of things to talk about if you do it like that. And I find that this is a really good exercise to do sort of as a free writing exercise.

Because you won't, you won't really know what kind of things that you can talk about until you start generating ideas they just kind of grow into other ideas and expand and expand. And I think it's really good as a confidence builder too, so that you know that you will always have something to talk about on your podcast.

A bit of a challenge for new podcasters is called Pod Fade, where you launch your podcast and you're like, oh, this is going to be great. And then you kind of think well, this is a heck of a lot of work. I wasn't really expecting there to be so much work of what am I going to talk about next week?

Having that tool in your back pocket, those 52 topics, and you can do this exercise whenever you want. It just makes it so much easier to go back and say, oh yeah, I can talk about that. I can talk about copper water bottles today. Is that something on my desk? Probably.

Megan Walker: I love a content plan and I like a theme per month.

And then, you know, the, just to sort of keep people's attention a little bit focused and go deeper. What are your thoughts around that? So you have a theme and then you might have your social posts around it. You might have a lead magnet. 

Emily Decloux: Yeah I love that especially for course creators. It's a strategy that I was using when I was promoting my course a lot, a couple of years ago because you have your open and close cart times, for example, and you want to deliver a specific type of information. So for me with my podcast course, really, really basic podcast information on the months that I was getting ready to launch the podcast course. And then after that I would do something like really interesting entrepreneurs or that kind of thing. I think it's a really good strategy to gear people up for what you're going to be offering to them.

Megan Walker: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now I'm going to back up a little bit because we said 52 episodes. I think possibly some people are still on the floor. If we wiped them out, what's a minimum range that still is effective? If you did one a year, it's going to be a why bother, so what's an acceptable range?

Emily Decloux: I would say a bare, bare, bare minimum once a month. Mm. And make sure that it is consistently released on the same day, every single month. The ideal is once per week. Mm-Hmm. And that's because your audience will literally just completely forget that your podcast exists if they don't see it automatically updating in their feeds every single week.

If I'm expecting a podcast to come out on every single Monday, I'm looking for that podcast every single Monday and I'm like excited for it. If it's not there, I'm probably going to move on because I'll think well maybe they just stopped. Okay. Whatever. Not my problem. I'll find something different that is similar that can probably do the same job and maybe I'll find it again, the original podcast.

But it's definitely a better practice to stick with weekly episodes.

Megan Walker: Yeah. Okay. So we are thinking weekly. Let's stay with that theme. People don't freak out. What are the hacks and tools to make that happen? So let's say we're going to commit. We're going to maybe use AI even come up with 52 ideas.

Mm-Hmm. We'll check over those AI ideas that come up and make sure they're humanised and relevant to our audience. How do we make that happen? What's the best process? We've got our ideas, tech habits, diary bookings. Give us your thoughts.

Emily Decloux: So I would say batch recording. You don't have to do like all four episodes for the month in one day, but maybe you do sort of batch all of my topics on this particular week.

And then the next week I'm going to write out my outlines, and then the week after I'm going to schedule out two solo recordings. And two guest recordings. So you're doing it in a way that you don't end up burning out. Because it is a lot, but then you have everything in sort of a seamless process that you can repeat every single month without feeling like, oh my God, I have to sit down and record it, I have to put my makeup on. I have to get dressed. Like all of these things, you know, if you decide to do a video podcast. I  never really want to do video podcast because I'm like I don't want to put on all the makeup. I just want to talk and I just want to gab but I think yeah, bot botching batching your podcasts in, in that sort of a way, like creating a process for yourself is the easiest way to get it all done.

And what we do, as you know, we create a schedule for our clients. So we say, on this particular day, all of your recordings are due, and then you have a whole month. Before you have to give more recordings to your podcast editor or before you have to get your recordings to yourself if you're doing this as a DIY.

Megan Walker: Yeah, I love the accountability of that. I really do like just having you in my corner and knowing that Emily's going to be emailing me quick. I better record some interviews. Then it's not actually that hard - like you and I are sitting down now, this will take us 15, 20 minutes.

Your team will do all the heavy lifting to make it beautiful. But sitting down and having a chat is the easy part. Like coming up with three or four questions. I've got another one tomorrow, another one the day after. And you think oh gosh, I didn't mean to, but it's almost like this week is batching for next month.

Like it wasn't that hard. And your prices are very reasonable too, that I think anyone can get started and actually achieve that. I'm doing two a month, but I can see how doing four a month is actually within reach and it must make a huge difference. Like you see the big names, the Amy Porterfield, the Stu McLaren, all of those people are just visible all the time, aren't they?

Yeah. So tell us in the course creation world, what role is the podcast or the video show, and we should explain the difference and the pros and cons of each as well. Okay. This is a triple barrel question. Wow. Okay. A, let's start with video, podcast pros and cons. And then B, where does it fit in the course creation world.

Emily Decloux: Okay. I'm definitely going to need you to repeat that B question later. Okay. So the pros and cons of video and just audio with video, there is a ton of opportunity to grab clips for social media. As we know everything is going video right now. You had Amanda Casina on a couple of weeks ago, and she really explains that.

Brilliantly. So if you haven't heard that episode, definitely go back and repeat that. So it's a really great way to connect with your audience. They see your face, they, they see your little mannerisms and your quirks and stuff, and it's a fast way to get into top of mind with them. Then the benefits of just the podcast, the audio podcast itself would be that you have that longer term like more than one minute to connect with your audience to really be like in their ears, like in intimate parts of their lives being when they're exercising, like that's an intimate part of their lives, for example. Or when they're doing chores, when they're at home. You really get to create sort of a, a proxy relationship with people in that way.

That I don't think you get to when people are rapidly scrolling social media. Social media is a wonderful way to capture people's attention and be like that is interesting. I do actually want to learn more about that. I'm going to check out that podcast episode or I'm going to follow, and then I'm going to learn more and more ongoing.

And then the podcast is a great follow on to get people more involved in the topics that you're discussing and really get to know you better. What are the cons? I don't know. I think there's no cons. I really feel like there's no downside to having either or. It's just really what are you comfortable with? Mm-Hmm. Right. Like I said earlier, I, I feel sometimes more comfortable when I'm just doing audio and sometimes I feel more comfortable when I'm doing video. It really depends for me anyway, on the topics I'm discussing or how long I'm going to be recording for, or whether it's a billion degrees out and I'm sweaty and I don't, you know, I don't want to be on video. It's a comfort level thing. Not everyone wants to be on video and that's totally okay. Like I've had clients who started just with audio who eventually worked their way up to being confident to using video, right? So. I think, yeah, there really isn't a downside to either.

It's really just what you're most comfortable with.

Megan Walker: Mm. I, I grabbed the idea of doing, like on mine, it's, you know, listen to the audio, watch the video, or read the transcript. And I used to really love Marie Forleo, did a Marie TV where she'd sit down with Oprah or Richard Branson or someone incredible. And I just found I felt much more connected to her through video, but I appreciate not everyone's got the time. And when I interviewed my clients and said, which do you prefer? It was so split down the middle that I thought, okay, well I'm just going to give it to you on a plate and you can either, you know, slurp it with a straw or eat it with a fork.

You can digest it however you want. That's kind of where I went there it is.

I love that you handled that triple barrel question so well and you talked about the role of podcasting for course creators. I have heard that a few times. You know, if we are thinking about our funnel of we meet someone, they're a total stranger, they might hear about us on social, they're like, oh yeah, that's interesting. Then the podcast or the video show is that. Ah, I'm developing a deeper relationship. Right. I know some course creators will say that all of their students are the people who watch and listen to their podcasts. They're, yeah, they're having that deeper know, like and trust experience.

What else do you think, as we start tapering towards the end now, and, and I want to talk to you about lead magnets. Ooh. This might be part of the answer. So we've got that feeling that, okay, my podcast is going to deepen that relationship.

Mm-Hmm. What else can we do with our podcast to help sell and promote our online courses?

Emily Decloux: Yeah. So in my preparation, these were all the things that I've already talked about, but I do have one extra juicy thing. So things that I've already covered were, or that you've covered the know, like trust factor.

That's 100% a part of why I think course creators should have a podcast. And then. Promoting your webinars and your courses through like promotions or the content of the episodes is something we touched on earlier. Promos are actually a really great thing. And you and I should explore more promos, I think.

Ooh, yes, please. Just to see, yeah. What some of the things,

Megan Walker: explain, explain to the audience if they've not heard of that before. What do you mean by promo?

Emily Decloux: So a promo could come at the beginning, middle, or end of an episode. I usually like to put them at the beginning or the middle because I think that's when you'll have a little bit more of your audience's attention.

But for example, my cart's opening in a couple of weeks. I wanna get people on a wait list to get them excited to be getting these emails that I'm going to be sending. So I'm going to for a week run a promo where I say, join the wait list. The doors are going to be opening soon. I want you to be the first to know.

The next week I'm going to say the doors are open and we're going to have a webinar, and so on and so forth. I mean, you'll structure this however you want. And then finally the doors to the actual course are open and it's time to sign up. And by this date we're closing up for a little while, so if you want to get in this round, this is the time to do it.

Or if you want, you could do an evergreen promo as well where you're promoting maybe a lead magnet, sort of like you were alluding to Something that I recommend for all my clients is if you have a lead, a couple of different lead magnets, try to use the lead magnet that's most applicable to the content that you are discussing.

Megan Walker: I'll tell you what I suggest to my clients and then you tell me what you like / don't like about this. I'd say to them have, have a couple of lead magnets that are a bit chunkier.

So what I mean by that is one might actually be a 20 minute mini free training. And so that as a primary lead magnet, would sit on your website and do a lot of heavy lifting for the funnel. And it could be like you know, talking about burnout in healthcare. So it might be, this is why it's happening, this is when the cause of it is.

Here's a, a sheet to go with this to assess your levels of burnout and this is what to do next. Like quite a meaty thing that's really high value. Mm-Hmm. I would say to my clients, do maybe one in the first half of the year, one a different type of thing in the second half and rotate them.

But for podcasts you could even just have something really topic specific that's just like a one pager cheat sheet or even a diagram or a checklist that's pretty quick and easy to produce. So, so let's say it's understanding sugar, you might have, all right, click down below for our sheet on what all the sugar terminology means.

And it's just that simple. That's my head space for lead magnets playing with podcasts. What do you think?

Emily Decloux: I think you hit the nail on the head and thank you so much for doing all that work for me. Once you have those topics kind of like lined up and maybe your checklist could apply to multiple different podcast episodes, and you can always bring those promos back because those lead pages, they're not going away, right? Mm-Hmm. You could still send people to the same link. But yeah, I, I really like the idea, like you said, of rotating every half year or every quarter or something like that, but make it, make it something that's like the next step that people can take with you.

That is a logical next step. I think that's really the point I'd like to drive home there because if it doesn't make sense, then people are going to be like, okay, well why do I care about dog therapy if I'm listening to a podcast about healthcare? You know, it doesn't fit. I don't know if dog therapy is a thing, but I think we've just invented it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Megan Walker: It actually is - animal-assisted therapy. Emily, thank you so much. You have inspired me to go, you know what, I'm going to go for four. I'm going to do promos. I'm feeling inspired. And for everyone else who's listening, who's going "ah light bulbs", I think as well, you've really explained the relationship between the podcast and the social posts. Mm-Hmm. You know, let's not fall into that easy trap of, I'm going to create some social posts about the upcoming health week and schedule them in advance. It's like, oh we want this all to be dynamic and you want to hear the practitioner or the clinician's point of view.

A monthly theme that's in the podcast, it's in the socials, that's in the lead magnet. That's all taking people on a journey. I, I really hope those light bulbs have gone off for people that say, oh, wow. It's not just another thing sitting out here on its own right. It's all another ingredient in the cake.

Emily Decloux: Exactly. And I mean, and hopefully too with your podcast or if you decide to do a video show with it, it's driving your whole content strategy so you can just pull elements from the audio, from the transcript, and you can repurpose all of that in an intentional way. And it hopefully, again, will take a lot of pressure off of you to create all of this content as well.

Megan Walker: I think my last point, and then I want to tell people how they can get in touch with you. I think some of the pressure, it's very real when you're first in course creation mode, that you will typically have a day job still for income. Don't let go of that until you've got the other income stream coming in.

And then as the course you are building it, so you've got your day job, you're also building your course and then you're list building. But eventually you will get your course built and so then you can launch it, make some money, drop down a few hours on your day job, and eventually this will look like a course and a funnel that works and sells.

She says, just having clicked over a million dollars of online course sales, nice. And now then the time becomes focused on bringing people in, introducing and building your email list, which can be fun. Like we sound energised and we sound delighted about doing this because those other pieces have been worked through.

So if you're listening to this and going, I feel so overwhelmed, know that the journey will improve. You won't always have three full-time jobs. Eventually you'll get down to one that you can lean into and really nurture and deliver that care through your content generation. Thoughts, Emily?

Emily Decloux: I love that idea of delivering care through your content generation because that's really truly what it is. Like, I think too I was listening to a lot of fertility podcasts recently on my journey to becoming pregnant. Yay. And it just, it does feel like the creators were really delivering care to me in a way that was one to many that was sustainable for them. And you know there's no way you can actually care for thousands of people if you get up to that level or hundreds or sometimes even dozens.

There's sometimes just like no real ability to do that with the time of day that you have. So using your podcast to be able to reach that mission and vision that you have for yourself, for your career for your life, what you want to do, I think it's just really nice to have the opportunity to be able to share through your content and have people feel like you are talking to them.

Megan Walker: Awesome. I'm going to post below where everyone's watching or listening a link where you can find out more about Emily and get in touch. Tell us about your socials as well. Where can we find out more about you and, and follow your every word Emily?

Emily Decloux: Oh, thank you. You can find my website, https://www.theultimatecreative.com, and you can find me on Instagram at @Emily.Decloux and on YouTube and on various other places. I'm also a comedian, so I've got most of my stuff online is about comedy, but the ultimate creative.com is where you're going to find all of my podcast info back episodes of my podcast, my free webinar that I have on there.

Tons of different resources that will help you get started with your podcast.

Megan Walker: That is so funny that you are a comedian. I love the sidebars that people have. That's all right  I'm studying permaculture. Can we guess this in a million years? Yeah. Emily, thank you so much. It's a pleasure working with you and talking with you and really encourage anyone listening who thinks, look, that all sounds great but I'm really in that three full-time job stage. Get some help to make it happen. It will get easier. Stay positive, stay the course. And Emily can't wait to send more people your way. And thank you for your time.

Emily Decloux: Thank you so much, Megan. This was wonderful.

Megan Walker: See you soon.

 

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