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Megan Walker: hello and welcome to the Healthcare Online Podcast. My name is Megan Walker and I'm joined today by very special guest, Katie Kjelsaas, who is a clinical psychologist and supervisor, and her private practice is called Connections Count. Hi Katie. How are you?

Katie Kjelsaas: Hi, Megan. I'm well, thanks. Lovely to be with you.

Megan Walker: Thank you so much for coming along. We wanted to have a conversation with you today about your journey from. As an educator and then in the psychology world, and now you are, you know, early days stepping into hey, online courses and what that might look like. And I thought this is really helpful because you are the, the situation of so many of your peers.

So it'd be great to hear about, you know, your thinking and also, you know, so that we can start letting some of your clients and your world know about what's coming. So tell us about your background and how you came to be sitting here today.

Katie Kjelsaas: Oh, gosh, Megan, that, that's like for everyone, it's a long story, right?

I've had a bunch of different backgrounds. I first. Trained as an actor. Then worked in finance for a while, then studied education, and then finally came to psychology because while working as a high school teacher, I had this sense of not being able to really help the students I most wanted to help.

So I entered psychology training, maybe thinking I was gonna end up working with. School students and then fell in love with sex and relationships therapy. So my practice is actually relationally based. But now after several, many years of working in that practice, it really divides itself right down the middle.

I do about 50% clinical work with clients, mostly clients in relationship or individuals who are presenting with relationship difficulty. And then. 50% of my work is supervising and training other psychologists, counselors and therapists. And so I've got those two streams in my practice and that I really enjoy that mix.

Megan Walker: Yeah, that's beautiful. Okay. I love that. And so when did you start thinking about. Going down the path of online courses. And what's the trigger for you? Was it, oh, I wanna reach more people, or, I've got, I've got all sorts of reasons why people come to online courses. I wanna travel. I've got one whose husband's a dive master and she's in Bali.

And then, you know, the Maldives. Maybe we're not always. Tell me what's your rationale for looking into healthcare courses?

Katie Kjelsaas: I think all of those sounds like, sound, like awesome reasons. Yeah, probably, probably for me, the main reason, well there are two and they relate to those two. Audiences I serve for clients like a lot of us, as I'm dealing with increasing wait lists and difficulty servicing the, the clients who are coming to me in addition to expanding my practice, I'm thinking, what can I offer people that helps to hold them?

While they're waiting for therapy and also might prepare them to do better therapy when they can connect with a therapist. And so the idea of being able to offer my clients something that can educate them, can position them well to then do the more experiential work of therapy really excites me. And with respect to supervision Again, we're so limited when we think exchanging money for time, right? Yes. When we think one to one, and I know you talk about that in your training from a financial perspective, which is really valuable. And I also think about it from a service perspective. Even a connection perspective. 'cause my practice is connections count.

If I can bring together a group of therapists, passionate about the same thing, connect them to good learning, but also connect them to each other, it's a much more rich learning experience for them. And really very rewarding for me as well. So I'm looking to, I guess, maximize my impact in that respect with, with the teaching, with the supervision.

Megan Walker: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay, so we're overcoming wait lists, educating clients. Increasing your impact. Absolutely. Fantastic. And so what are you thinking that you might be wanting to put out there in terms of a product? Have you got that far yet in terms of, okay, this is what I think clients might need, or where, where's your thoughts at at the moment?

Katie Kjelsaas: Megan, look, I've got a bunch of ideas. I've got sort of three main things that I think I want to do. And the two that I'm focusing on at the moment are a mini course for clients that looks at attachment principles because I'm attachment focused therapist. And really provides them with a solid foundation in terms of what to expect and a little more understanding of themself and how their experiences to date might impact what happens in their relationship now.

Mm-Hmm. So I'm looking at that as sort of an educative course for clients. A preparatory course. For my supervisees and other therapists I work with, my passion is attachment focused experiential therapy. So I'm looking at what are the creative ways that I can engage them and help them learn to really maximize their skill as experiential therapists.

And I'm working on a few different ideas there. So I've been testing some things with webinars to see what really. Serves them and what excites them. Yeah.

Megan Walker: Oh, that's so good. And for, for anyone listening who is a clinician or practitioner therapist going down this path, I, I just so encourage all of them to follow your lead and take the time to do that testing work.

Because I know in my own first course, I thought, you know, I'm, I'm not a clinician, but my clients were all private practitioners. They all needed marketing. I was. Similar in the sense that I couldn't take on any more clients and had a wait list. But you know, obviously different context. I'm managing their Facebook campaigns, et cetera.

But still, there's only so many hours in the day and I thought, well, no, I will actually teach them. It'll be more cost effective for them to learn and then do it themselves, but I'm gonna teach them the equivalent of a postgraduate diploma in marketing for Allied health. I, I, I get tired just hearing you say that.

Isn't that exhausting? And I was so convinced that I would bring in all of my knowledge and all of my wisdom and package it up, and that would be the best service I could possibly deliver to that client group. I love already that you have gone, this is the area that I'm gonna hone in on. This is what they will get value out of.

This is how I can help, but you are co-creating it. With your cohort so that it's not. Here's the Meghan Walker legacy.

Katie Kjelsaas: It's what I think you want, and it's what I think you want. Let me it down your throat.

Megan Walker: Yeah, no, I don't think that would work.

Katie Kjelsaas: But the other thing, Megan, as you say that, and I'm just kind of watching us smile at each other here, is I think it's very energizing.

Something I didn't expect is how enjoyable it is to get to know this beautiful community of therapists and start to hear what they want and what moves them. And so I'm aware that. Private practice, especially solo private practice, can be so isolating. Yes. I'm just having a lot of fun getting to know new people and learning what they need.

And so, you know, I'm hopeful that eventually that's gonna lead to more income in my business as well. But it's a real joy just to be connecting with this community. Yes.

Megan Walker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the benefit. And the other thing that I, I've heard people say a little bit lately is, well, why would I create a course?

Everyone else in my profession knows. The content, like they all know the same thing. And I've never thought of it that way. I've had hundreds of people through my program, no two course ideas the same. But even if they were, everyone's unique gifts are so special. Do you wanna talk on that a little bit as well?

Like, Packaging up that essence and those insights and that wisdom is such a unique offering, and that's what people are so drawn to. Tell me your thoughts. There's not really a question now, I just wanna hear your thoughts.

Katie Kjelsaas: That makes me think of a quote I saw recently, and I'll probably butcher it, but it said something like it doesn't matter if. People don't like who you are as long as the you, they don't like is the you, you wanna be. And I think that really resonates with me, this idea that the best thing I can do is actually stand right in the center of my purpose and do it the way I wanna do.

You know? So that means. Sparkly earrings and sparkly jackets and a little bit of humor and a lot of joy and a lot of experiencing. And for some people, I'm gonna be their cup of tea and for other people I'm not. But there'll be someone else who will be Mm-Hmm. And I think that's, that's a very freeing and beautiful thing to kind of be allowed to explore and play and find out, okay, what is the thing that really excites me and brings me alive in my work?

And how would it feel to offer that? To other people. Is that kind of what you're

Megan Walker: asking? Absolutely. And, and, and we could just imagine for a moment. Casting our minds into the opposite of that. Yeah. Like if you were to take the opposite approach and lean into the fear and doubt and potential judgements of others that would be so stifling to that joy and that creativity, like you have the two options, why not lean into the one of, you know, am I gonna walk down the street and say hi to this lady that I don't know, and tell her I love her dress?

Or am I gonna grumble and complain and look at all the cracks in the footpath, like, you know, which. Which option do I wanna go with? And it takes bravery, doesn't it, to go well, I'm gonna think about this bigger than myself to step into this. Have. Have you found that it's been a little challenge for you to go, well, I'm trained as a clinical psychologist, and now I'm looking at being someone who has education products.

Tell me what that thought process has been like for you. I know

Katie Kjelsaas: we were actually riffing on this a bit before we hit record, and I think it's a mindset challenge. Mm-Hmm. For a lot of allied health professionals, certainly psychologists. I, I wonder if maybe the more training you have, the bigger this challenge lives in your mind.

That. We are often drawn to this profession because we sincerely want to help. And if we were to look at personality traits, common to psychologists or allied health professionals, conscientiousness would be a big one. Mm-Hmm. So we rule followers. And I think a challenge around that can be that sometimes we invent rules for ourselves that don't exist.

So I think I, I have definitely grappled with is it okay for me to do this? Does it. Conform to opera's guidelines. And as a bit of a side note, Megan, that's something I've loved about you because you've worked in this space for so long, you're so across that. Yes. And I feel like you're able to help me navigate that very well.

And I'm appreciative of that because I can then rest in that and think, okay, I know Megan knows the guidelines and is pointing me in the direction of the right stuff. Sure. And so I can have confidence that if I'm working within those guidelines, it is actually okay. Yeah. For me to market myself, it is actually okay for me to offer these things to my community.

I can do it in a way that is ethical. Yeah. But I think you're tapping into something very important that it's probably a mindset that holds us back a lot in psychology. And then maybe a, a scary thing that can happen is that the market is flooded with information that comes from people who.

Perhaps some are not as ethically aware, are not taking as much care about their clients. And and that's not good. No,

Megan Walker: no, exactly. I always say to people, there's such a line in the sand that there's clinical work that's face-to-face. We'll never replace that. It's so important. Telehealth face-to-face.

But that's that individualized clinical treatment work. And then the healthcare course is the general education knowledge. Repeatable helps people. Doesn't get them into trouble. Does no harm. Yes. And you know, APA largely is do no harm. Hmm. Don't sell some someone something they don't need. Don't promise them something that's unattainable.

Don't mislead them, don't misinform them. And, and it, I really do like the principles of it. I don't really like the. We're gonna publicly note, put you on notice while we're investigating your part, but that's being looked into. I should edit that out. But the co, the, the largely the intent of opera is good and clinicians will naturally follow along with that.

Yeah. Just by doing what's right, you know, just by doing what's the greater good and like you say, the, the right intent by clients and that duty of care. And so some of that worry. I think can, can be let go. It's always good to be conscientious. It's always good to be a rule follower, but they're not going to come after you for trying to help people in the best way possible.

Katie Kjelsaas: No,

Megan Walker: no, I think what it's about

Katie Kjelsaas: and, and I think yeah, that's a mindset adjustment, right? It it's, yes. Certain me, I'm, I'm learning to make a shift there in the way I

Megan Walker: think about

Katie Kjelsaas: my practice and my work and what

Megan Walker: I can offer. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Tell us, as we start to wrap up, what's your vision for your practice and what do you hope to give to the lives of the two audiences that you're working with?

Katie Kjelsaas: Hmm. Yeah, that's a lovely question. I think my vision for my practice is to be able to empower wholeness and thriving in people and systems. And so I have this picture of if I can get up and I can do that in a given day, that feels really great. Right? I've got a sense that when I help people in a relationship, a couple or a family to become healthier.

I don't just help them. It has a ripple effect that impacts the people they love and their community. And so I love that idea of us becoming healthier in our communities. One family, one couple at a time. And for clinicians, I think, you know, it's the reason I call my practice connections count. It's the same thing.

We function better together, right? We're securely connected to safe. Others, we can lean on each other. We can draw on resourcing. From each other, we do so well. And so that idea of being able to bring clinicians together around shared goals, shared interests, and empower them to support each other makes for a healthier community, a happier life for all of us.

You know, the same tide raises all the boats in the harbor, right? And so that's probably my vision.

Megan Walker: So good. So good. I wrote down wholeness. Gee, I love that word associated with you, like that's such a a U word. Oh, thank you. That's lovely to hear. Oh, how can people get in touch with you and stay posted as you, you know, start to, once you get through your testing, you've got the evolution of the building your beautiful product.

How can they get in touch and, and follow your journey?

Katie Kjelsaas: The easiest way is just to head to my website, which is connections count.com au and you can find everything there for clients, for therapists. And I also do some professional coaching, so come connect and I'd be just delighted to support you in whatever way I can.

Megan Walker: Oh, so good. Thank you so much for chatting with us today. Absolutely. Love everything that you've said, everything that you're about and your jacket.

Katie Kjelsaas: Thanks Megan. I'm digging your earrings too, the red pops. It's been just a pleasure talking with you and such a pleasure working through your online course in how to make online course and looking forward to continuing, continuing that work at my own beautifully slow pace.

Megan Walker: Love it. The journey is your own. Absolutely. I appreciate that. 

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